Should schools ban slang from the classroom? (Transcript)

 Johns: Michael, street slang is an anathema to me (.) and I want it kept out of the classroom, because for me, and with the young people I mentor down in Peckham in South London, I c-, I tell them language is power. (1) when I hear young people speaking street slang (.) they sound as if they’ve had an exceedingly painful frontal lobotomy, with all the innits, you get me bluds, yeah, basically, they sound stupid (.) and uneducated. I want the young people I tutor to be taken seriously by those who have the power (.) uh (.) to take decisions which can affect their lives for the better (.) uh (.) for the better or for the worse (1) Ed Milligan’s and David Cameron (.) do not speak street slang.  

  

Rosen: Well (.) it’s uh (.) its very interesting. If you like, I agree with some  of that from the point of view that we want young people to be empowered (1) but first of all let’s go back on your (.) notion of language is power. (1) I’d say that’s pretty reductive. (2) I think if you’re just going to have a single sentence about what is power (.) I would say money (1) is power. If we talk about street slang, it is only one kind of slang (2) somebody like David Cameron, he spoke another kind of slang when he was in school, he spoke Eton slang. (2) So when we talk about slangs, we have to be pretty careful because we all talk slang (.) we have no evidence that simply speaking one kind of slang (.) or one kind of local dialect actually prevents you (1) from speaking (.) another (1) we are all capable of being bi-dialectal. That’s to say speaking two kinds of language (.) or more. (1) So the key issue is why don’t (.) your mates ((laugh)) in Peckham (.) choose to speak standard English (.) or maybe (.) they can (1) erm (1) ahh or maybe they know how to and choose not to so that’s one of the key issues.   

  

Johns: If street slag (.) was the lingua franca of power (1) and the key to social mobility in this country, I would be the first to advocate it to the young people that I mentor in Peckham. (1) But it’s not (.) so I don’t (1) I personally am more a big fan of code switching (1) or cultural relativism (.) because I think (.) that actually under pressure, for example in that all important college, job or university interview (.) the young people revert to (.) type, so they revert to street slang (.) and therefore, it prejudices their application.   

  

Rosen: Okay, so (.) let’s say I agree with the idea of the desirability (1) of (.) your friends (.) learning  standard English, so the question is how to get (.) from (.) the street slang that they speak and choose to speak, (1) to speaking, or knowing how to speak in Standard English or in received pronunciation or whatever you think is (.) most desirable (.) now, as far as I understand it, you think you should ban it (1) now my view would be (.) no (.) you study it. 

Johns: I have a zero-tolerance policy with my young mentees down in Peckham (.) and I try and correct the way they speak (.) so, for example, if its (1) basically, you get me, like, bruv, c-cuz (.) all those kinds of slang terms (.) I think they are best kept out of the classroom. 

Rosen: Er (1) you (.) if you go to Shakespeare, you’ll find that Shakespeare uses the word (.) cuz. (2) Now my starting point would be (.) if, let’s say, one of your friends uh (.) uses the word cuz, and say (.) well let’s have a look at that word cuz (1) let’s see what its history has been (.) in the English language (.) Let’s have a look. (.) Here, in this scene in Shakespeare (.) in Romeo and Juliet (.) okay (.) there is- there's street violence going on in Romeo and Juliet. (.) Here is a fascinating (.) way (.) in which street slang is being used by a dramatist (.) let’s look at it. (.) So we get from the language that your students, your friends, are using (.) and say (.) let’s have a look, here is this uh (.) vehicle (.) or theatre (.) this- this vehicle of (.) of language, sometimes a vehicle of power, Shakespeare (.) and he’s using some of the similar language (.) using that- that you use. 

Johns: I think it’s very for (.) liberal academics and writers (.) who are often, not always, but often cocooned (.) in a very safe, closeted (.) world, an ivory tower. (1) In my opinion (.) I think it is actually very hypocritical (.) because I think you’ll find that the majority, not all (.) but the majority of those liberal academics and writers (.) they themselves enjoy the benefits (.) of a Rolls-Royce humanities ((laughs)) education (.) and our wager with no slang whatsoever (1) I deeply struggle (.) with (.) the notion (.) that for example, in (2) w-w-where when we hear young people speaking street slang, we’re hearing the authentic rhythms of Africa. 

Rosen: Oh, I wasn’t saying that. 

Johns: I want to (.) help (.) and empower the young people (.) because (.) we live in this society and (.) as far as I’m concerned (.) ninety-nine percent of the people who have the power (.) to tangibly effect (.) and boost the life chances of my mentees (.) don’t speak using the word nyam (.) for example.  

Rosen: So (.) how do you get (.) from A (.) to B? (.) How do you get from street slang to the way (.) you’re speaking? You see, this is the key issue (.) You start from the speech and (.) the writing (.) that your students have (.) and say (.) ((pointing at Johns)) well look, here is another way of writing, look, here it is in (.) The Guardian newspaper. (.) They don’t seem to be writing in the way you’re speaking (.) Why is that? (.) Simply banning (.) won’t do the work. People have been trying to ban street slang, (.) local speech, (.) dialect, whether it’s Cockney, Geordie, or whatever (.) they’ve been trying to ban it in education for a- over a hundred years, (.) okay? (1) and the- the obvious (.) oh, uh, (.) survival of dialect and local speech (.) is evidence that it has never worked.